Deep into the finale of Better Call Saul’s fifth season, Kim Wexler raises the idea of ruining someone’s life. Her target, the smarmy but reformed attorney Howard Hamlin, has long been stuck in her craw. “What if Howard does something terrible?” she wonders from under the sheets in the luxury hotel suite where she and her husband are holed up. Initially, he’s happy to play along. But after discussing several hypothetical scenarios, the lawyer formerly known as Jimmy McGill realizes that his wife isn’t playing at all.

“Kim, doing this, it’s not you, OK?” he says to her over a bowl of room-service ice cream. “You would not be OK with it.” Her reply is as cold as her sundae: “Wouldn’t I?”

The camera then cuts from a close-up of Kim to a nearly teary-eyed Jimmy, then back to her. “She had taken him by surprise,” says Peter Gould, who directed and also cowrote the episode with Ariel Levine. “He’s really uneasy with the direction she seems to be taking.”

“Kim,” Jimmy—or is it Saul now?—says softly, “you’re shitting me, right?” On her way to the bathroom she wheels around, pulls two imaginary pistols out of their imaginary holsters, fires twice, and pretends to blow away puffs of smoke. The only thing Jimmy can do is stare at her and force a laugh. “He’s looking at me trying to figure out, ‘Who is this person that I thought I knew?’” says Rhea Seehorn, who plays Kim.

“She fights it much more confidently and completely than Jimmy does,” Bob Odenkirk, the Breaking Bad spinoff’s star, says about Kim’s duplicitous urges. “But because she has that capacity it’s not even that strange to her, in a way.” In other words, he adds, “They’re more similar than when you first meet them and you think they’re not at all.”

[Read Alan Siegel's piece on Season 5 of Better Call Saul, which features interviews from Bob Odenkirk, Rhea Seehorn, Vince Gilligan, and more.]