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Bob Moesta, co-creator of the Jobs to Be Done framework, recently published a new book, Job Moves. Drawing from interviews with over 1,000 people about their career transitions, it offers a practical playbook for career development. In our conversation, we discuss:

• The four different “quests” that drive career changes

• Why job features (salary, title) matter less than experiences

• How to identify what gives you energy vs. drains you

• The power of taking a “jobcation”

• A template for crafting your career story

• Tips for hiring and retaining great talent

• The importance of prototyping potential careers

• Much more

Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-find-work-you-love-bob-moesta

Some takeaways:

1. If you’re burned out and need to reset, consider a “jobcation”—a job that’s easy enough to let you recover but still offers you the flexibility to explore your next move. Whether you’re looking to recharge mentally, rebuild relationships, or just regain control over your time, a jobcation is your breather. Think of it like a rest stop on the career highway where you can recover, refocus, and decide where to head next.

2. People leave jobs for one of four main reasons (“quests”):

   1. Get out: You’re drained and just need to escape.

   2. Take the next step: You’re looking for growth and a way to level up your skills.

   3. Regain control: You need to take charge of your time and responsibilities again.

   4. Realign: You’ve been stretched too thin and need to focus on what you’re best at.

   5. Knowing which quest you’re on helps you figure out what you need to feel fulfilled and make a strategic move.

3. When job hunting, focus on experiences over features:

   1. Job features (salary, title) are static and often misleading

   2. Experiences (what you’ll actually do day-to-day) drive satisfaction

   3. Money is often a surrogate for other needs (respect, security)

4. No job is perfect. Before making any big decisions, weigh the tradeoffs. Will the job give you the learning experience you need to move forward in your career, or is it just a paycheck? Consider how it will impact your future goals—sometimes you’ll need to take a pay cut or sacrifice a fancy title to get the right experience.

5. Hiring software often filters out resumes that don’t hit certain keywords. If you’re applying for roles and not hearing back, it might not be about your experience—it’s about how you’re presenting it. Hire a resume writer who understands how to get through these filters.

6. To find energizing work:

   1. Track what gives you energy vs. drains you in your current role

   2. Look back at past roles for patterns

   3. Use tools like StrengthsFinder to identify your natural talents

   4. Don’t try to fix weaknesses—find roles that leverage your strengths

   5. Aim for 40% to 50% of time spent on energizing work

7. To prototype potential careers:

   1. Interview people in target roles about their day-to-day

   2. Look broadly across industries that need your core skills

   3. Test assumptions through informational interviews

   4. Use LinkedIn to find people to speak with

   5. Pay attention to what excites you during research

8. Craft your career story using this template:

   1. Once upon a time... (your background)

   2. Every day... (your core skills/interests)

   3. One day... (key realization/change)

   4. Because of that... (actions taken)

   5. Until finally... (where you are now)

   6. Ever since that day... (your continued journey)

Where to find Bob Moesta:

• X: https://x.com/bmoesta

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/

• Website: https://www.jobmoves.com/

• Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Bob's background

(05:10) Bob’s new book, Job Moves

(09:31) Job features vs. job experiences

(11:16) Four reasons people leave jobs

(17:20) Energy drivers and energy drains

(31:05) Prototyping your next job

(34:32) Pushes and pulls

(40:01) Understanding that no job is perfect

(43:18) Taking a jobcation

(51:22) Finding the right next step

(55:18) Navigating job applications and interviews

(58:28) How to craft your career story

(01:04:04) Strengths and weaknesses: leveraging your superpowers

(01:06:21) Hiring and writing job descriptions

(01:11:20) Self-awareness and founding a startup

(01:21:24) Conclusion and final thoughts

Referenced:

• The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta

• Ethan S. Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/

• National Geographic: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/

• Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice

• Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career

• The Story Spine (also known as Pixar’s Story Structure): https://www.storyprompt.com/blog/the-story-spine-also-known-as-pixars-story-structure

• Tobi Lütke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke

• Job Moves resources: https://www.jobmoves.com/resources

• Why Employees Quit: https://hbr.org/2024/11/why-employees-quit

Recommended book:

• Job Moves: 9 Steps for Making Progress in Your Career: https://www.amazon.com/Job-Moves-Making-Progress-Career/dp/0063283581

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