Well, this was something:

Theo Von just explained how blow works to Donald Trump (insert an “off the rails” pun here).

“I would just do cocaine,” Von answered.

Trump laughed and remarked: “That’s down and dirty, right?” He also asked if Von still takes cocaine or if it became “too much to handle.”

“Some of the stuff started to get a real rattle in it too,” Von replied. “I don’t know where we were even getting it from in this country, but yeah, it started to make me feel like I was a mechanic or something.”

“So the thing you go back to then is alcohol, for the most part?” Trump asked.

“Right, yeah, but what I want probably is cocaine,” Von said. “But I know that if I have a drink, then it’ll give me, it’ll be like, OK, well, I had a drink, then I can do this.”

“Is cocaine a stronger up?” Trump asked, presumably meaning high.

“Cocaine will turn you into a damn owl, homie,” Von answered. “You know what I’m saying? You’ll be out on your own porch. You’ll be your own street lamp. You’re frickin’...”

“And is that a good feeling?” Trump asked, cutting in.

“No, it’s horrible,” Von said. “But you do it anyway.”

Tough to imagine anything funnier than someone saying this to Trump: “Cocaine will turn you into a damn owl, homie.” 🦉

Wish we had seen Theo walk Donald through an actual drug purchase: “Nah, homie…I’m not really going skiing. That’s just what we say.”

Hundreds of journalists have tried to get information blood from the Trump stone and most have failed miserably. Yet somehow Theo Von (!) cracked the code and delivered a fascinating window into Trump’s psyche. Like, have you ever seen Trump be this genuinely inquisitive before?

There’s a lesson the media can learn from comedian podcasters like Theo Von, Joe Rogan, & Marc Maron: the importance of setting a frame.

It's something good standup comics do every night with an audience. They're not going to "come to you." Instead, comics set the vibe/tone/framework of interactions. Others enter their world(view).

When you go to see Doug Stanhope perform, for example, it’s not going to be about your preferred topics of conversation. It’s going to be a discussion (well, monologue) of what he wants to talk about, how he sees the world, and what he thinks is interesting. Come along for the ride or don’t.

That’s what conversation framing is all about:

Framing a conversation is like being a director in a movie. You guide the narrative, set the tone, and shape the journey — all while ensuring that the other participant feels like a co-star, not an extra. It's an art that demands your attention, your empathy, and a touch of tactical skill. Framing isn't about manipulation; it's about mutual engagement. It's steering dialogue in a way that benefits both parties.

This is how you get Trump discussing blow, Rogan getting Peter Thiel to compare LA to Nashville, Maron getting Barack Obama to open up about race, etc. By being real instead of "acting professional," these interviewers extract humanity from guests in a way the George Stephanopouloses of the world can’t.

Another great example: Von’s interview with John Mulaney. Mulaney talked about his addiction in a way he never has anywhere else. Because what else are ya gonna do? Bullsh*t Theo Von? Nah, homie.

The amazing thing about the Theo/Trump exchange is no one gets this more than Trump. He is a master at setting frames and redirecting conversations. And yet Theo disarmed him completely with his, well, Theoness. By the end, Trump had entered Theo's world (“Is cocaine a stronger up?”) and wound up talking in a way we've never seen before. It was pretty incredible.

The OG master of this approach is Howard Stern. I’ve always marveled at the revelations that come from Howard’s interviews. A celeb can be on a junket doing hundreds of interviews and yet when they go on Howard, it generates confessions that create headlines.

It’s because Howard has created a frame of honesty, vulnerability, and revelation-as-goal. His philosophy: The thing you least want to talk about is the thing people most want to hear.

It’s his world. If you enter into his arena and don’t “go there,” you just seem out of touch. (Charlamagne does a great job of this on Breakfast Club too.)

This approach is why mainstream media is increasingly falling behind podcasters. It’s tough to be a “professional” in a world that craves the humanity of jesters and fools.

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Media Musings

💥 Lotta mediocre men out here worried about cancel culture. I just want to let them know that it’s only for famous, rich, or powerful people. If no one cares what you say in the first place, you’re safe. The culture can’t cancel you if life already did...