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I’m doing another Ask Me Anything in January to celebrate four years (!) of Paging Dr. Lesbian. Ask me any questions you want (within reason) about pop culture or whatever else here. For reference, here is Year 1, Year 2, and Year 3.

Today I’m excited to bring you an interview with Alexandra Swarens, a lesbian filmmaker and actor. Swarens has written, directed, and starred in numerous films, including City of Trees, Looking For Her, (both Christmas movies), Spring, and Over Easy. She also created and starred in two web series, The Fortnight and LA Web Series. Devoted viewers of independent lesbian and queer media may be familiar with Alexandra’s work, but for newcomers, now’s a great chance to dive in.

I spoke with Alexandra about her new film, The Holiday Club, which is now available to rent or buy on Tello Films. Rather than taking the form of a classic Christmas movie, The Holiday Club looks at all the holidays year-round, a concept you’ll hear Alexandra talk more about below. It follows two friends as they navigate romantic feelings for one another over the course of a year. I encourage you to check out the film and support independent lesbian filmmaking. (And, if you’re looking for more lesbian holiday films, check out my exhaustive list.) I hope you enjoy our chat, which has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Kira: I wanted to talk to you about Christmas movies. You've done two Christmas movies in the past, and I was wondering how you came up with the idea for The Holiday Club, which centers around different holidays throughout the year but not necessarily Christmas.

Alexandra: So, this story doesn't sound great, but, basically, Good Deed bought my last film, Looking For Her, and they asked me to do another holiday film with them. Well, they wanted me to do another Christmas film, so I wrote one on a plane to a friend's wedding, and I kept that script, because I really loved it, and I showed it to my agent and she told me the scope of everything so I kept that script, and they were like, well, what about just like any holiday? So I wrote something, we shot it like two months later, and that's kind of what The Holiday Club is. I haven't shot the other one. But, they were like ‘choose any holiday’ so I just put them all in, just because, it's not really to me – I know everyone's gotta hate me for saying this – it's not about the holidays so much, it's kind of like the passage of time, and how we connect through holidays, if that makes sense.

Kira: Yeah that totally makes sense, I got that from the film.

Alexandra: But I do like a holiday film. Anything that makes you kind of like feel warm and good is not a bad thing, you know?

Kira: I love how you portrayed the friends-to-lovers journey in the film, I was wondering which details of that experience were really important to you in terms of getting that right, and teasing out the nuance of that.

Alexandra: I didn't ever think about getting it right, really. I love When Harry Met Sally and that was a huge influence on this one, and so it's such a queer – would we call it a stigma? It's in the queer world of friends being like ‘wait, should we be together?’ Or kind of like waiting until they break up with someone. I know it sounds so bad, but I have seen it so many times around me and it's been every kind of thing though. I've seen it a little bit more toxic, and then I've seen it very genuine, and so I just wanted to make sure this was a very genuine story about two friends who, they're kind of longing at different times, but it's never this unrequited thing – they just care a lot about each other and I think that's the kind of the basis. It's never about one wanting it more, it's more right people, wrong time, kind of thing.

Kira: One of the things I think you do really well in your work is kind of lean into the awkwardness of situations, especially potential romantic situations. Is that kind of an intention on your part or does that just come naturally to you?

Alexandra: Can you give me an example? I think that love can be awkward, but there's not a lot of awareness around it, you know? I feel like if it's very authentic it can feel very awkward but it doesn't make you feel weird inside it's not that kind of awkward where you're just like 'oh what is this, I don't want to do this,' it's very like, 'oh my god,' you can't help it. But I don't know exactly, like what parts do you mean?

Kira: Kind of the initial conversations, feeling each other out, what should I do, what's the vibe here...

Alexandra: Well, we met the day before, Mak [Shealy] and I, and that was our first scene. So, in that first conversation, it's probably there. It's probably just like, sussing each other out, and stuff like that. But also that's so true to meeting someone and you're kind of like, 'who are you?' Like you're kind of attractive and I haven't seen anyone that I felt this for in this town, because they're in this small town, you know, so, I think it works well, I think that Mak did such a great job with that.

Kira: Yeah, totally, I felt that as well. That was one of the things I wanted to ask you about, the casting process, especially since you're also the star of the film, what is the casting process like for casting that other romantic lead, specifically for The Holiday Club?

Alexandra: With this one it was fast, it was very very fast. We started about this film in January, we shot all of April, I went in February to do a little location scout, but we had someone to play Sam for a very long time, and then they had to pull out because they had a scheduling conflict. So I think Mak was hired a week before we started, so it's such a fast thing. But I couldn't picture anyone else playing Sam. So it's one of those little happy accidents, the Bob Ross theme, like my wig in the film, was very Bob Ross. Casting everyone else, it was all local hires, I like to be a part of the casting process, I think it's so fun. And seeing the talent in Ohio was a great thing but also a very small pool. So it was a fun challenge.

Kira: How did you end up on the setting of Ashland, Ohio?

Alexandra: I did not decide on it, the producers run their studio out of Ashland, so. I am so glad that I got to be there though because it was just the cutest experience ever.

Kira: Yeah it looked great, the whole setting. I think it really worked. So, doing triple duty as writer, director, and star, what would say is the most difficult part about doing those jobs, and what's the most rewarding part about all that?

Alexandra: Most difficult part of doing those...I don't know if I find any part difficult, I'd say I love writing, starting with writing is just the best thing in the world, you get to be in your own world for a little while, and everything influences each other. And if I'm acting too, and if I'm directing, it kind of just all goes together. The challenges – it's kind of like what everyone else goes through. I mean actor challenges, sometimes you just are like 'oh this scene is a big one, gotta get out of your head or something like that.' In terms of directing, there's a location that I like to talk about with this little press run that I did, because they found out that it's a queer production, and they pulled out. And so those are the challenges that you have to roll with. And it's a very prominent place in Ashland, Ohio, I will say, that pulled out, but I won't say the name. Someone does wear a shirt with that company, in the film. They pulled out, and it was a scramble, we were shooting the next day, that scene, so we switched to a candy shop, we didn't tell them it was a queer production, and I switched it from one food group, because that would give it away, to nuts instead. And just gave Mak different adjectives to go of off, so there are challenges like that, but they're not overarching challenges of doing all of them together, really.

Kira: In terms of bigger picture stuff, do you ever think about the broader landscape of lesbian and queer films in terms of things that are missing or stories that aren't being told, or are you more focused on looking at your own work?

Alexandra: Yes, actually. I was watching Carol recently and I used to have a little bit of an issue with the film. It's so beautiful, it's directed really well, the performances are amazing, but I think I used to view it from a lens of wanting it to be more than it is. Wanting it to be less sad maybe, like I wanted to see them break out of the life that they had a be a little bit more fun with each other, but it wasn't the time. And I watched it this year, and I appreciated it, because I wasn't coming from a perspective of what I would want it to be. We can have those films and I'm trying to make them, but I really really got to appreciate it and I got see the glances, and I got to take them in, instead of being like ugh, why can't it be this and be happy and all those things and not break my heart so much, maybe? But we can have both, I think we really can. I think maybe my stuff I do think about in a way where if I am directing it and I wrote it, I want it to be a certain way, I want it to be more hopeful, I would say. I will break hearts in different ways, but not like the things we've been given over the last how many decades.

Kira: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. So kind of in that vein, either when you're writing or directing or filming, are you thinking about any message you want to get across with the film, or is it more of an instinctive creative process as you're making it?

Alexandra: I think I've become more self-aware with interviews because I don't have great answers sometimes because I'm like I dont know? I just kind of go with my gut, and write what I hear. And just try to make it as authentic when I hear them when they're speaking in my head, which sounds not great, but you know. When I'm really trying to listen to the characters, I'm just trying to make them as true to themselves and the connection as I can. What was your question, was that even close?

Kira: No, yeah, you got there, thinking about the message versus just doing it in the moment.

Alexandra: I don't think I ever think about an overarching message, really. I go by feeling, if it feels like, 'that's nice, or 'oh my god, why would she say that,' that's kind of how I pursue something, you know?

Kira: Yeah, that makes sense. I was also wondering about if you have a sense of who the audience for your work is, and if at any point you ever think about that? If that ever crosses your mind?

Alexandra: I would say no. I have no idea. And I still don't even know who watches it. I kinda hope for the best. And yeah, I have no idea. And because I'm not on social media, I really don't know how stuff of mine is received. So it keeps me, you know, ignorant and all that. I'm okay with it, it keeps me okay, you know? I don't need to check things and I think what I'm doing is keeping my work honest, but who knows? It could be the opposite, if I just checked things.

Kira: I mean I always see lots of positive comments when I go onto YouTube and stuff, people have a lot of nice things to say.

Alexandra: There's always gonna be both. It's life. There's never going to be fully like, positive things. There's gonna be a little bit of both. May as well stick to what you know and what you're doing. That's not true for everything – don't take my advice there.

Kira: I also wanted to ask you a little bit about the fact that you're not on social media – do you think that makes it easier to be creative when you're not thinking about other people's opinions or other people's takes on things all the time?

Alexandra: Yeah, I definitely think so. And when I watch stuff myself, I found that process of finding Carol myself and like not really knowing what other people thought, even though friends were like 'I love it' or other friends where like 'eh, it's too stuffy' or this or that – people are going to be so upset – I love it now. I love Carol. But I think that it is nice to process things on my own and then speak with people I know or, just because you can't really get that in-depth with people if it's just over the internet, or just a couple of messages or whatever you do on the internet, I don't even know. I don't know if it's that so much as to why I'm not on it, but it could be one of the reasons that I just didn't pick it up. It just didn't come naturally to me.

Kira: Can you think of, off the top of your head, any scenes that were the most difficult to shoot in terms of logistics or any other aspect of the filming process?

Alexandra: I'm just so not interesting with this!

Kira: Well, my other question was which scenes were the most fun to shoot, if that's easier to answer.

Alexandra: Oh, I have answers for that! Fun, I have that. The date between Sam and Kayla, the first date that they go on, I wasn't in it, but I loved watching that, it was so funny for me. I was cracking up behind the camera. That was just great. And they just gave each other NOTHING. They're like chemistry? What is that? They brought it for that. The pickleball scene I was laughing a lot and I got play a little bit of pickleball with Mak right before which I had never played before. I really loved so many days. The bar stuff was really fun. Do you have a favorite scene?

Kira: I mean I loved the idea and the execution of the pumpkin guts fight as opposed to like, baking cookies, I think that would be the obvious choice, like a flour fight as they're baking cookies, that's like a classic thing. I liked the pumpkin guts instead of something cuter, and less gross, so I loved that.

Alexandra: Oh, that's so funny. That must be a personal thing because I love that part of like, scooping out the pumpkin guts.

Kira: I love pumpkin guts also, but I thought that was a clever idea to have a food fight based on Halloween instead of Christmas

Alexandra: That's so funny. I love that scene. I love the kiss. And the very quick love scene that happens. So nice. And then that awkward next-day scene. It was so funny on the day because I felt like I was keeping her captive. Because of how awkward Sam was just sitting there. I was like man, I feel like I just locked the door, kept the key, and left you there. But yeah, there's so many fun film days. And then, days when we weren't filming were just as fun too.

Kira: Okay, well I'm about done here but I wanted to ask one very important question – your character in the film is a baker, so, about how many baked goods would you say you ate while filming this movie, and how difficult was that?

Alexandra: I mean, that was the best part. It was so nice. I ate a lot of baked goods. My favorite baked good was the chocolate peanut butter cupcake from Bella's Bakery. It's called Bella's – we had it as Bailey's but it's called Bella's. Oh my gosh, it's so good. The lemon bars were really really good, too. We had both vegan and non-vegan as well because Mak has an allergy to eggs and I think all dairy, so we had to change all of the baked goods really fast. In Ohio, getting vegan baked goods was not easy. So a lot of the production designers, friends were baking things and stuff like that, but, if you're ever in Ashland, Ohio, go to Bella's – they're not vegan, though, I will say. They're delicious. It was definitely the easiest part of the whole thing.

You can watch The Holiday Club on Tello Films.