☠️ This outdated ecommerce model is dead

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And now, check out this podcast with our founder, Nathan Chan. On what he’s learned from doing over 500 Foundr Interviews: Hey, Founder fam, welcome back to another episode of the Founder Podcast. Now, today's episode is a very special one because it's our 500th episode of the Founder Podcast. It's been almost 10 years since we published our first episode with the goal of hearing the stories, strategies, and lessons from some of the most successful founders in the world. And in that first episode, I actually interviewed Fabio Rosati, who's the founder of Elance Odes, which ended up becoming Upwork on how to disrupt an industry. Since then, I've talked to hundreds of super successful founders, but the vision for the podcast remains the same. Have an open book conversation so you can not only learn how to build a business, but actually what it takes to be a successful founder. So today, to celebrate 500 episodes of the Founder Podcast, I'm going to be talking to my favorite founders, you guys. I'm laying everything out. I'm going to be laying everything on the table for a special AMA, ask me anything from founder students with a few surprise questions from the founder team sprinkled in. So whether you started listening or watching the podcast today, or you've been with us since the beginning, this episode is for you. All right, let's jump in. All right, so let's jump in, guys. All right, so let's jump in, guys. The first question is, how do you get started? That I have is from Vicar, and he asked me, what was the most inspiring story that made you who you are today? It's really tough, to be honest with you, because I've interviewed so many people, right? And it's all this like massive blur that's just mixed up into like a ton of different stories. But I want to share a story about me, something that happened to me that made me who I am today. And that was, I will never forget, it would have been about at least 12, 13 years ago, I was working my job in IT support. And part of my job was, you know, supporting the team members around, you know, tech and infrastructure, and fixing their computers and, you know, making sure people can work. And there had been a complaint that came in, or numerous complaints that came in that staff, you know, the 200 plus staff weren't feeling supported. And they felt that every time they raised a ticket to get help, those tickets never got answered. So what ended up becoming a, what was a directive? At the time, we would do shifts, me and a few other team members in my IT support team. We do shifts, and we need to, you know, do shifts every half a day, each walking around the two different floors to say, basically, does anybody need any help and walk around. And my boss at the time came in and told me this idea. And I said, 'I'm not doing that.' That's a waste of time. And so, I actually got pulled into the office by my boss's boss. And she absolutely ripped me apart. And after that meeting, I literally felt like I wanted to cry. And it was such a crazy feeling that someone could have that kind of level of impact on my life and that kind of power over me around the work that I wanted to do. And I was like, 'I'm not doing that.' I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing what I wanted to do. And just, just the way that that made me feel. And that particular story, I have carried with me for my whole life, because I said to myself, after that, I never want to be in that position ever again, where someone can treat me that way. And yeah, that was pretty impactful for me. So that's, that's something that just shaped me who I am today. And I ended up starting as a founder and wanting to do my own thing and find work I was passionate about. And then here we are, like, 13, 12, 13 years later. All right. So that's that one. Why did I start the Founder Podcast? So it's, that's actually a really cool story. So I started Founder Magazine, and it was just me wanting to find successful people and tell their stories and share them with the world. And it was a digital magazine at the time. It was in 2013. And I used to actually because it was digital, I used to house those interviews. So you could actually read the story, but then you could listen to the interviews inside the magazine. And our ex-head of marketing at the time, but I met him on the phone, crazy story, a whole nether crazy story, Dave. He said to me, like, I was thinking of starting a podcast, but I wasn't sure if that would cannibalize the digital magazine. And he said to me, Nathan, let’s make a bet. If anyone complains in the next six months, you can always pull it down, but just see what happens. And so I took the best interviews from the magazine after about a year of publishing it. And I launched this podcast and I got my friend Marin to help me. Like he had a tutorial on how to do it. And he talked me through it. And that's why I started the Founder Podcast. I wanted another medium to share these incredible stories because through the magazine, I was able to quickly build authority in the entrepreneur space. And then I just could tell these incredible stories, and I could find these crazy founders that were really hard to reach, really hard to get in touch with. So, time-poor, but they would take some time to give back to our community and share these stories with you guys. And I just wanted to share them with the world. I just wanted them to get into the hands of as many people as possible and really help people. So, that's why I started the Founder Podcast, because I felt that there was a, an opportunity in the space where I could actually reach out and speak to some of the craziest founders behind brands that you might've heard of, or brands where you might've heard of the founder, but not know the brand. And through our publishing medium, we were able to get in touch with some really hard-to-reach founders. And I wanted to share those incredible stories. I didn't want to keep them locked up in the magazine. And then the Founder Podcast kind of started and it's crazy. And it's crazy. Thinking back, um, I used to think 10 years ago back then that podcasting was massive and I'd missed the boat. And now people look, think that podcast and be like, wow, podcast is massive. And I've missed the boat. Like it never stops, right? Like you always think an industry is too big. It isn't too big. Alright. So the next question Matthew Seely has asked, it seems like the word bootstrapped gets thrown around a lot in the world of entrepreneurs. Of those 500 founders you've interviewed, can you tell us a little bit about that? Can you tell us about a few of them that truly started from zero and grew a successful business? Yeah, of course I can tell you about tons. Um, some crazy ones that are my favorites, uh, the guys from High Smile to Two Fellas, soccer players didn't play at like a super professional level, but competitive they were into competitive sports and they played soccer, um, based in the Gold Coast, Australia. If you know, Australia's Gold Coast is not a good place to be. So, I'm going to point out the place. Like it's not a business hub, it's a startup hub. It's not where heaps of talent go, especially like from anywhere that would understand the online space. And these guys started from absolutely nothing starting at the teeth, basically a tooth whitening business, um, selling the kids, but then it's turned into a whole oral care brand and they've just truly innovated in the industry. Their products are crazy. Their branding, their marketing – just the business is just incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their drive and they're so young, and what they've been able to do is so impressive from where they've come from, and it's their first business-it's insane! That is a great example of how you can bootstrap a company and just keep reinvesting profit for growth, and really kind of build something massive like that. That business after I think about seven, eight, or nine years is going to do half a billion in annual revenue-like that is insane! How big they are with no experience, being in the Gold Coast, Australia, like not a talent hub or place where anything much in the business world is happening, and to compete on a global scale to build the brand and the caliber of products that they're building. Is so impressive, so another example is Kendra Scott, who was a single mother selling jewelry door-to-door. Now, that business she ended up selling for over a billion dollars – right, like insane! She started from absolutely nothing, and I think that's the crazy thing. Right there's plenty of founders that we interview on this podcast that they raise money right and they do exceptional things, but part like most of the time you actually need to raise money because they might have it might be a capital-intensive business or they want to go faster or they want to you know take the market. But you don't always have to there's two sides. Of the coin, right, and I think both sides of the table work; both sides of the coin are going to be going to be going to be going to be doing work. It really comes down to your preference, right, and it really comes down to the product or service, and it really comes down to the market opportunity, and how competitive the market is. So, if you look at brands like Uber, it probably made sense that they needed to raise a ton of money to take the market. But then if you look at a brand like High Smile, they were able to sacrifice profit for growth and build out their own industry and become a market leader, so yeah, I hope that answers that. Question so, yeah that's my take on bootstrapping versus non-bootstrapping and is it thrown around a lot? Look, the founder is a bootstrap business, bootstrap businesses are near and dear to my heart. But at the same time, I've got a lot of respect for founders that raise a ton of money and grow a company and build a company super-fast and what they do with that capital is very impressive. The next question I've got is, what makes an incredible guest? So, for me, I actually have it pretty easy; I've been a pretty lazy interviewer. I've been a pretty lazy interviewer. I'm self-taught, self-trained. I have no experience in journalism, which you can probably see, and I just approach things from a natural curiosity. I was always told when I was a younger kid that I asked too many questions, and it's funny to think that here I am speaking with you guys asking questions for you guys to help you guys because like it's an incredible job, it's an absolute privilege to get to do what I do. What makes an incredible guest is somebody with just the depth of experience they have as a founder, the their ability to push their comfort zone so much that inherently they have these incredible experiences to share and these wild and Crazy stories, um, an incredible guest is a founder that is vulnerable, that can talk about interesting, fascinating stories, can really open up and share about their own life, and their own life, and their own life, and share about the hard times and share about these lessons that they learn and the battle scars that they have to prove it; an incredible guest is somebody that's entertaining, that is really present, and they're here, and they want to serve, and they want to help you guys, they're not looking to sell anything; they just really want to help and give back from their journey because they understand. That entrepreneurship goes full circle, and that's really what the entrepreneurial circle is about. It's about paying it forward, and that's what Founder is all about-that's why Founder exists. We want to help you guys accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship, and we want to help you if we can. And we want to pay it forward. Um, but in order for this business to run, we have to sell products and services, obviously, right? To keep paying it forward. And part of those products and services that we, that we, you know, sell actually pay it forward too, and really help you guys so it's a-it's such a cool business that. I get to be a part of, and the whole family team gets to be a part of. Um, so that's what makes an incredible guest, somebody that's super vulnerable, someone that has great experiences to share, they tell incredible stories, they're open, they're honest, they're present, they just want to give back; they really care about our community and for that reason, they're really bringing themselves wholly to the interview. And it's really easy-like I get to ask questions and I get to just be super curious and just delve in; like you know, I just put myself in this position where I'm meeting them for the first time, and we're having a beer together. I'm genuinely curious and I just want to learn, and uh yeah, that's what makes a great interview-what makes a difficult interview guest? I guess probably the exact opposite of what makes an incredible interview guest. Someone that's difficult is someone that gives short answers; they struggle to open up, so I have to really kind of push to get them to open up. Um, they are not present; it's obvious they don't want to be there. Uh, they probably have got convinced by their PR team that they have a PR agency that they have on retainer or their PR team have pushed them to do this interview. Because it'll be good for the brand, uh, a founder that is not open to sharing crazy stories or basically the exact opposite of what makes an incredible guest. Alright, my next question is: Can you share a story of an awkward or funny moment that happened during an interview? Yeah, I've got a ton, I've got a ton; I'll share with you some good ones. Um, so when I interviewed Melanie Perkins, the founder of Canva, it was early days founder and it was actually early days for Canva. And um, I never forget that I was interviewing her in my parents' basement, and back in the day there was no Zoom; I used to use Skype and I used to use this tool on Skype. Called e-cash call recorder, and uh, yeah, we started doing the interview and I was speaking to her for about 20 minutes and I forgot to hit record and I was just like, 'Oh my god, I am so sorry,' um, I need to hit record and she just started again and she was so professional, she was so polite and I'll never forget it was, she yeah, I have a lot of respect for her and it's a testament, like the kind of character of a founder she is and the kind of person she is. Another great one was uh, I remember I was going to interview Tony Robbins, I've interviewed Tony Robbins like two times maybe three times, yeah, two times at least, yeah, two times and uh, the first time it took like quite a few times to actually make the interview happen so one time um I showed up and they didn't know where tony was and he was racing Ferraris around the arctic circle and uh that they couldn't get in touch with him so I was like oh my god I’m going to interview him and so we had to reschedule then another time once again. I was in my parent’s basement early days founder and uh I actually uh got up at like 4 am or 3 am to do the interview and there was no power my whole house my whole street they turned the power off because they must have been doing scheduled maintenance and they assumed everyone was sleeping uh which is which is crazy. I had to speak from my phone. I'm like I’m so sorry guys the power is not on we have to reschedule um I think that if you haven't heard or seen the interview with Grant Cardone who's a bit of a controversial character he will come to Melbourne. A lot of people were saying hey you should interview him and like you know he's a successful founder in his own right and he's a very interesting funny hilarious guy and you know love him or hate him he knows how to get attention and I interviewed him and that was crazy uh it was awkward he was asking me how much money I had on my bank account and I wouldn't tell him and he kept guessing and I kept on going higher and higher and higher and yeah he was he was saying I was like you know a little if I don't tell him i thought that was a funny awkward moment uh the interview with Noah Kagan not the latest one the most recent one but the first one that was a crazy story and it was awkward. But it made for one of the most interesting interviews from a confrontational perspective because he came to Melbourne I met him I asked him to do an interview he said Noah Kagan was the best interviewer I’ve ever had in my life he said no he was kind of a bit of a jerk about it and then later and that was early days founder. Like when I first started in the first few months, and then like two or three years later, when the founder was growing really fast, he reached out, and I told him the story, and then he got really mad at me, and then he asked me again, 'Can we be friends?' And then we ended up you know smoothing it over and all sorts of things and um yeah and he's a great guy like it was a fantastic interview especially the latest one and that first one but that was awkward it was interesting it was made for an interesting interview um so yeah there's been some crazy ones said Cole has asked me what has been the most common answer from guests about how to scale. Their business, um, I would say it's around people, and this is something that I continually have to remind myself. And like, I think we need to put out more content, especially courses and programs, and in our platform around people, not just around how to be a better leader, but also how to hire, find, and identify and attract great talent to your business, because businesses are built by people. And I know it's not sexy right, it doesn't get clickbait, but I guarantee every single founder that I speak to has people challenges, wants to get better at people, and it's crazy the things that I've seen how you get. A really, I like one good person or a few good people in your business, how fast it can grow from just great people, and uh, that would be the most common answer from guests in a roundabout way around how they scale their business is getting better people and how they find better people. And it's something that needs to be talked about more in this space because it's the key to everything: businesses are built by people. Yes, the founder is the leader, yes, the speed in which a company grows is a direct correlation and reflection of the CEO or founder; but at the same time, that founder has to have great people around him, and every single business. Every super successful founder that I've interviewed that has a massive business, they've been able to get incredible people to help them build that business. What's an interview that stayed with me afterwards? Look, there's been a ton, I'd say one that has stayed with me afterwards was Scooter Braun's interview. If anybody asked me what's been my favorite interview, that one probably the most or that's one that I often come back to. Um and I'd say because he was just so vulnerable and so open and so honest, and I just didn't expect it, and it was just so raw and so honest, and it was just such a fascinating Interview, um yeah that's one that stayed with me afterwards and still does. What are some takeaways from interviews that have changed the way you run a Founder as a business? Oh, there are tons but you guys might find this interesting: it's really hard because I, I'm the CEO and then for maybe two hours a week or one hour a week, I'm the host of this podcast. So, I've got so many other things going on, running the business that I actually need to spend more time to be honest. When I do have these takeaways, writing them down, going away, and implementing them, I'm having more success when I actually read books from some of These founders and then going away and implementing them so as an example, a recent example is we interviewed Dan Martell. I'm going to have you walk right over to my screen and get your apparently chill today, yeah, look that was a fantastic interview, the team loved it, it was one of the best that we did last year, so when I was away, I went and read his book 'Buy Back Your Time' and then I've actually started to implement a ton of things for me as a founder, how I operate, how I lead as a founder. Um, you know there's little things like I remember when I interviewed Rod Drew, who's the founder of Zero, one of the things that he said to me that always Stuck with me that changed the way I ran, founder for good bad or otherwise, is he talked about speed. He talked about how impatient he is and how he was always kind of just beating the drum about how he can get things done faster. And I know that like I do that to the founder team and I know that it's uncomfortable, I know it's frustrating to people that I want things done yesterday. But I just, I just can't rest and like I just kind of have to always try and push and try and get things done faster. And speed is everything when it comes to building a business, so yeah. Those are a few Sally Chen asks why has the From Zero To Founder podcast hasn't been updated since 2022 I really enjoyed listening to other founders stories thanks that's a really great question Sally so look the from zero to founder podcast was a series that we did with Molly who was our community manager at the time and yeah we finished that series and we're looking at bringing it back we're looking at doing another series in the future really telling the stories of our successful students and that's something that we will bring back we're constantly interviewing students and speaking to them hearing their story so it's something that we will bring back but it was a series it wasn't going to be A continuous show, it was a series where we wanted to interview you know over 30, 40, 50 students that had had success following our program. If you haven't, make sure you check that out; it's truly inspirational. It's just the power of you know hearing people in your shoes right now, probably not the usual founder podcast kind of guest that's probably you know miles and miles and miles away from where you want to be, and it's so aspirational, so unattainable from where you might be. The zero to founder podcast was a bit of a spin interviewing founders in our community in the early stages of their business, really talking About the raw stuff, maybe only a couple years ahead of where you are or maybe where you are right now, that was a really cool series that I'm super proud of. And we look to bring something like that back. But it's a true testament to the fact that the Founder Plus curriculum and Founder Plus membership make sure you go sign up, make sure you check that out. Make sure you listen to 'From Zero to Founder' because if you're listening and you want to accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship, this is another way that we can help you not just through this podcast and not just through these interviews. I've always been comfortable speaking on-camera, if not, how have you learned to be comfortable that's so crazy because I remember I never forget one of the first times I had to be in front of the camera we were shooting some content from one of us for one of our first ever courses, Instagram Domination and uh it was just like a course, a program on teaching me, teaching how I grew our Instagram following and uh I remember being so nervous using a teleprompter, I was absolutely hopeless um I recorded that video yeah in a studio and it was so bad like, so to answer the question, yes, I have not always been comfortable behind a camera. And the way that I learned to be comfortable was just practice and repetition, and just having to do it like I never liked I never intended to be the face of the founder, it just happened because I was bootstrapping, and it made sense, and I just had to do it. And I've just continually um put myself in these positions where I'm always behind a camera, and now I'm super comfortable; I just pretend it's not there. It's like I can just imagine myself speaking to you right now. What does a day in your life look like? And how do you fit podcast interviews in? And how do you manage your time all right so a day in the life of Nathan Chan, I live by my calendar. I’m pretty hardcore calendar uh every anyone that works with me or my close friends or family know that uh if it's not in the calendar it's not happening so um I’m big on health and fitness these days so I go to the gym Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday morning uh Wednesday afternoon usually that's one of my staple things that I do and I usually start the gym at 8 am and do my PT session and then I go to the gym, and then I go to the gym, and then I go to the gym, and then I go to the gym, and then I go to the gym, and then I go to the gym, and then I go to the gym. I always meditate before I go to bed, and then also when I wake up, that's very important to me. Then from there, I'm always having my porridge, usually when I'm driving; and then I've always got my meals pre-prepared, and then I have my vitamins and my green juice. I'm always trying to optimize time; I try to get 10, 000 steps a day if I can. I'm doing walking meetings and I try to structure my week. I try to structure my week around where I do a lot of meetings-Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then Thursday and Friday-it's more around kind of me getting stuff done, me approving, thinking, working through different things within the business. Um, Friday mornings is usually when I'm always shooting, so it's actually a Friday morning now where I'm shooting this podcast. And in the evenings, and often in the evenings, I'm either doing work or I'm either seeing friends or family or I'm reading or spending time by myself. And on weekends, yeah, I do a little bit of work, try to keep the weekends pretty you know, doing fun stuff, seeing friends, seeing family, I try and keep it pretty balanced if I can, but not always, that's what a day in the life looks like. A lot of meetings, um, one-on-ones, working with the team, working on things, thinking... I think thinking is underrated. If I can, I always spend a good couple of hours. Thinking about things now more than ever, I'm changing up how I structure things. I'm constantly revisiting my personal goals and the goals for the Founder and where we're trying to go. I think that's really important. In the past, I might have set goals but I didn't revisit them as much as I am now and I think that's really important. Just constantly making that a center of focus just re-centering me um and yeah uh. My day-to-day is pretty jam-packed right, I try to maximize the time that I have. But when I'm not working, I really try and have down time with friends and family all right so Ann Ray has asked What would you say is the most common pitfall of someone who's an absolute beginner starting a business, specifically in e-commerce? I think from my experience and I've seen thousands, tens of thousands of founders, I made a hundred thousand like no, probably not hundreds, tens of thousands, like over these years. Um, I would say the most common pitfall is people fall in love with the idea and not the problem that they're solving for the customer when it comes to building a successful e-commerce business or building a business that you know can give you the lifestyle that you're looking for or give you the freedom that you're Looking for or to build something that you're truly proud of, and to really help others. Um, and it's really fun to build a business. There are hard times, don't get me wrong, but it's fun to create. I think the number one problem that e-com founders face is product selection, and getting the product selection right. I've seen really successful founders come out of nowhere very, very fast because they spent the time on product selection and getting it right. The product is what makes or breaks your e-commerce business, and if you don't get it right, if you can't speak to the customer, you can't speak to the problem, and it's not solving. A deep problem, and it's not a painkiller solution, which I talk about vitamins versus painkillers, and I didn't come up with this, I learned about it from Andrew Chen. Um, basically you know if you really want to create like a painkiller problem, like you really want a Panadol, a panacea to really help solve that problem with your e-commerce product, so getting your product right, getting that selection of the product that you choose to invest your time, money, energy and effort into is so key, it is so critical. Alright, Paris String fellow asked how much capital should a typical e-commerce brand plan on using in the first Year and what would the timing of these capital injections look like, all right, so I could get it; I could throw out a number right but I'm going to talk to experts so when I started Healthism with my partner Emily um, it cost three thousand dollars for the domain name; we didn't have that, we could've spent twenty dollars on the domain name but I wanted a solid domain name, so you can count that out, but um, to get it was around three thousand units that was the MOQ and it was about two dollars a unit, uh, so that would've been around six thousand dollars, that was the MOQ, bang done, and then there was a you know, a little bit of stuff on the Branding side, and then the website was built, and then we used Instagram to grow it. So, it cost us around seven thousand, eight thousand dollars, uh, in total to do the most to get the um website using Shopify up and running, and then all the marketing was done by us, so yeah, I'd say in the end, we just sacrificed profit for growth. Right? We got sales, and then the customer paid for shipping and handling, and then we went out, and obviously, yeah, sent went to the post office, and and uh, sent out the products. So, we used Instagram as that organic channel. So long story short, uh, yeah, it cost about eight grand in stock, and then we spent that. Extra two three thousand for the domain name, so it cost about ten grand; it could have cost between five, six, seven grand. Um, so that's what it looked like and that was kind of the timing I hope that answers the question. And then the brand took off and became you know, seven-figure. It goes to a small e-commerce store off of you know, the rest is history, all right? So next question, Vivian Teresa has asked: What is the future of the Founder and how do you plan on revolutionizing the coaching space, online courses, and overall e-commerce community? I love this question; so what does the future of the Founder look like? Uh, I can tell you what We're working on and the vision so for us, we're going all in on Founder Plus, it's our all-access membership platform. We're producing a lot of content for you guys, online workshops, online programs, and courses. We're really moving out all of our platforms over to a really incredible community software called Circle. And we're doing a lot to really work on that product to make it truly revolutionary. So the future of Foundr is really, we want to build the most comprehensive online learning platform to help you start or grow your e-commerce business. And we really want to be able to help support you however we can. And we want to really focus on the product. We're working on checklists. We're working on looking at a founder's journey and going, OK, if you want to build a million-dollar business, how can we help you? And what are all the things that you need to learn? So what will happen soon is when you actually sign up to Foundr Plus, you'll be asked a series of questions. And we'll have all the content that you need, which is called your success path or roadmap. And we'll be able to work out where you are on that success path, all the way from starting your e-commerce business to building a million-dollar-a-year e-commerce store. And depending on those questions that you answer, we will give you a custom-tailored learning journey that will give you the courses, the checklists, the workshops and the content you need to consume based on where you're at. Like you might just be at the starting stages where you need to come up with your idea or maybe you've already got your idea. But you need to work out how to drive more traffic to your store. Then you'll be served different courses and recommended different courses and programs and workshops to go through. And then you'll be oriented through the community as well. So that's where that is all going. And within the coaching space, we're continually upgrading and working on our coaching program. It is truly incredible. And we're just getting more and more super successful coaches to give back and coach and mentor our students. We're working on more and more. More workshops, more content to really help you guys succeed. And we're also looking at what sort of tools, checklists and things that we can basically give to you guys to make your journey easier. How can we really help accelerate your growth and future? So that's what the future of Foundr looks like. We're really, really focused on just doubling down on that product, making that product a market leader in the space to make sure that we can help serve you guys. And then over time, we won't just service; we're going to be able to help you guys. I see a world where we can help founders in, you know, from a coaching and Foundr Plus perspective in the services space, in the courses space, in the education space, in the software space, in the agency space. So in the marketing space and all sorts of ways. So yeah, there's a lot happening and yeah, we really want to just continue to create incredible content to help serve you guys and keep delivering on Foundr Plus and really making that programming like that, that membership next level. That's the go-to, that's where we're here to help you. And we want to, I want to build like that, I want us to be the co-pilot to help you guys on your entrepreneurial journey. All right. Lucky last question. If you could interview any entrepreneur dead or alive, who would it be and why? It's my favorite question I ask people at the end of every episode when we get to the hot seat. And it's an easy one for me. It's Elon Musk. Um, I think he just loves him or hates him. What he's been able to do as a founder, or he's being able to create and the brand that he's been able to build as a personal brand, but then also as all these different crazy brands that he's been able to build is just fascinating and he's just unwavering belief in the ability to handle everything you need to handle and the amount of stress and pressure that he takes on is just exceptional. And I, I, yeah, I can't wait till the day that we interview him one day. It'll come, it'll come guys. I will never give up. It will come. We just need to keep building this brand. You guys need to just keep being a part of this community, help us build this brand and it'll come and it's going to be crazy when it does. All right, that's a wrap for our 500th episode. Thank you so much for listening and watching all of these years. We've got a lot in the works to make the next 500 episodes of this podcast even better, and to provide you with the conversations that inspire you. To accelerate your growth and future through entrepreneurship. Thanks again. And I'll talk to you in episode 501. All right. So, if you love this episode, make sure to check out my interview with Alex Hormozi on how he scales companies from zero straight to $2 million a month in less than a year. You were like, 'How have you achieved what you've got cheap?' Like there's five years of my life that disappeared. In fact, I lost all the money, which I talk about in the book. I had all the gyms. I did the turnarounds and then I had $0 five years later because of the mistakes that I made. But the thing that I was gaining was not the money. It was the skills. It was the character traits and the beliefs. A Final Note Emails are one of the many ways we stay connected, but we understand they aren’t perfect for everyone. 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