Yes, I'd like to briefly defend Gavin Newsom.

California’s Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom is doing something unforgivable: He’s having lengthy conversations with people he disagrees with. Worse yet, he’s not even informing them about how wrong their worldviews are.

Newsom recently launched a podcast called This is Gavin Newsom. The show is advertised as a way for Newsom to sit down with a wide range of political thinkers, with a special emphasis on MAGA personalities who see politics very differently than Democrats do. So far, it’s living up to its billing: Newsom has already interviewed conservative activist and Trump’s Gen Z whisperer Charlie Kirk, conservative commentator Michael Savage, and MAGA media mogul Steve Bannon, who was recently released from prison. Kirk and Bannon, in particular, have been branded by the left as deeply evil and racist hatemongers, and their appearances drew an intense reaction online. 

Newsom’s project has rightly sparked a lot of speculation about his intentions to hop into the 2028 presidential race, including from me (on last week’s Sunday podcast, I said his podcast was basically his campaign announcement). It’s also birthed a neverending stream of criticism.

“What on Earth Is Gavin Newsom Doing?” Michelle Goldberg asked in The New York Times. 

“Newsom tries to use right-wing influencers to fix his image. Don't fall for it,” Dace Potas wrote in USA Today. 

“Gov. Newsom could step up to be the leader California needs. Instead, he made a podcast,” a letter to the editor in the Sacramento Bee read.

“Why is Gavin Newsom handing Steve Bannon a megaphone?” Margaret Sullivan asked in The Guardian, perhaps unaware that Bannon himself has one of the most popular podcasts in the world. 

Others branded the podcast “cringe” or said it “backfired.” The conservative account LibsOfTikTok called Newsom out for lying when he claimed he never used the term “Latinx.” Anti-Trump Republican Adam Kinzinger said he was “in shock at the stupidity” of Newsom having Bannon on his show, calling it “unforgivable and insane.” In reaction to the podcast, Newsom’s favorability among liberals cratered, dropping from 46% to 30%; the same polling showed Republicans overwhelmingly believed him to be insincere, calling him “fake” and “pandering.” The show now has an abysmal 2.8 out of 5 star rating on Apple podcasts.

Which, honestly, is a shame. I actually listened to the episodes with Kirk and Bannon, and I have to say… I quite liked them. A few things about Newsom’s approach stood out to me as remarkable and novel: